Sex Abuse in His Childhood and Adult Relationships, Tips for Prevention

John Jay Wiley (0:00): He grew up with lots of abuse, physical and sexual child abuse. He's here to tell a story and to give warning signs every parent, grandparent, aunt, and uncle should know about to protect children. Welcome to the law enforcement talk radio show. In the law enforcement talk radio show, we are joined by special guest talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes. Plus, those who've experienced horrendous trauma, police, first responders, military, and victims of crime share their stories.

John Jay Wiley (0:33): Hi. I'm John Jay Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com, and also like us on Facebook. Search for the law enforcement talk radio show.

John Jay Wiley (0:48): Of all the radio stations in The United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show. And on Facebook, there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. Conte is from Missouri outside of Kansas City. We have Mike Elder on the law enforcement talk radio show.

John Jay Wiley (1:09): Mike was abused as a child, sexually, physically. It had a tremendous impact on him. He also is an artist. An art, you could say, he's become some of his outlet. Sculptures.

John Jay Wiley (1:23): He does murals. He does cakes. He's a world famous cake artist. And you can buy on Facebook, a great place, Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. Mike, thanks for being a guest on Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show and talk about this.

Unknown Speaker (1:36): Yeah, man. I really appreciate it. I I really do.

John Jay Wiley (1:39): Not an easy topic to talk about because and quite honestly, it happens far more frequently than we realize.

Mike Elder (1:46): Well, you know, that's for sure. And I think, honestly, it's harder you know, there's a stigma attached to men, talking about it. You know, it took me near fifty years to finally actually be willing to to talk about what happened to me as a kid. And, you know, man, that affected every aspect of my life for that entire period of time.

John Jay Wiley (2:08): It does. And I was thinking about this and it has nothing to with the interview, but I was thinking about how growing up and I didn't have anything like this happen to me. So I don't want anyone to misconstrue this, but I have my own baggage to deal with, and it had a tremendous impact on my relationships, my dating, all that stuff. I can't imagine how you can go through this and not have an impact to you.

Mike Elder (2:28): Oh, you know, it's really looking back on it, you're really you know, it's I love to say you try to live life without regrets. But, man, looking back on it, had I been able or willing, I guess, to unpack any of this? You know, I was with my kids' mom since the time we were 16 up until we were probably 40. And, you know, she had no idea. I had never told her.

Mike Elder (2:53): I was so afraid of people finding out. You know? Like, I you know, I just carried such shame. And, man, it it affected every single thing that I did, every decision being a father, everything.

John Jay Wiley (3:06): Well, first of all, before we get in, we're not gonna go into graphic details, but later on the conversation, Mike is gonna give you some warning signs that people can be aware, whether it be parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, to protect children from sexual abuse. How old were you when this started?

Mike Elder (3:24): Oh, gosh. I mean, the the silly thing is is there's a photo of mine. My my parents used to love it. This photo of me in a diaper laying on a couch looking at Playboy magazine. And, you know, I I don't know when the actual physical abuse started, but that's you know, nowadays, they'd call that grooming.

Mike Elder (3:43): You know, I don't think my parents were deliberately trying to do that at the time. I think they thought it was cute. It does sound pretty funny. Me to really objectify.

Unknown Speaker (3:52): To to be honest with you, it does sound kinda funny.

Mike Elder (3:56): Yeah. Oh, yeah. It it was a cute photo, and for most of my life, it was cute. And, you know, you you think, oh, that's fine, but that type of stuff was really, you especially driven into me that, Oh, a man is a sexual thing and a man should conquer women. Man, that's not a very healthy

John Jay Wiley (4:17): It's way to grow also not very accurate. Look, we have basic instincts and we can talk about testosterone, we can talk about all that stuff and their pros and cons, but look, was, and I tell people this all the time that I would gladly, willingly chase a guy into an alley that just murdered three people, his arm with a submachine gun. I had no problem doing that, but asking a girl I didn't know to dance in a nightclub was paralyzing.

Mike Elder (4:43): Right. Yeah. I I think, you know, my my father especially was just you know, wanted to make sure I liked girls maybe. I don't know. You know, I I'm not sure what the real motivation was, but but, you know, that kind of stuff was available.

Mike Elder (4:58): And, you know, we're talking late seventies, early eighties. It's not like the Internet was around, but there was definitely, you know, media like that available to me from a very young age.

John Jay Wiley (5:08): One of the things that as a police officer, a retired police officer, a police sergeant that I became aware of was that, and there was a big, big shift. When I was a kid, there's a difference nowadays than when kids the big threat when I was a kid was the creepy guy in the van giving out candy. Look out for this guy. We have since become more aware as a society that the familial and people you know and the people closest to you are the greatest risk.

Mike Elder (5:39): Right. For sure. And and honestly, everything that happened to me as a kid wasn't from the guy in the van. It was friends of family. It was neighbors.

Mike Elder (5:48): You know? It was you know? I I don't think they were all related, like, in in like, knowing that they were all doing it. But, man, it was just commonplace, and it's crazy what especially when you're a kid can become normal to you. You know?

Mike Elder (6:01): And back in the day, that was that was normal for me.

Unknown Speaker (6:03): And how old of a guy are you now?

Unknown Speaker (6:06): 52.

Unknown Speaker (6:07): So you're still relatively young. You're a pup. You're a youngster.

Unknown Speaker (6:10): Man, I hope so.

John Jay Wiley (6:13): So you said earlier in the conversation, it took well into your forties before you admitted this to people.

Mike Elder (6:19): Right. Yeah. I mean, I I don't even remember the moment, but I was I literally was driving one day, and I had had a conversation with a friend about stuff, like, just past stuff. And for some reason, I just turned my phone on. I'm one of those guys that all I need to do really is to say something.

Mike Elder (6:36): Like, if you and I have a problem, I just gotta call you or go to you and tell you, hey, man. You did this. I'm mad at you. Or Right. You know, I misunderstood this, and then everything's fine.

Mike Elder (6:46): Right. I'm the same way. I recorded myself driving and just talking about basically my youth and my life. And man, it was like opening a floodgate. I just all of a sudden was able to let go of so much of it.

John Jay Wiley (6:59): The question I've got to ask is, we're talking something about the incidents occurred, but most of it is, and I'm not saying it's the case with you, but we get stuck in the walling of the poor me and then people that go through really bad things, they seem to have this let's tough it out and not show anybody face.

Mike Elder (7:18): Right. I mean, one of the things that I was raised to believe is men are tough. Men don't talk about things. You know? And and also while the abuse was happening, it was always don't tell anybody.

Mike Elder (7:29): It was always, you're really lucky this is happening. We're teaching you. We're we're showing you the way, but don't you dare tell anybody because, you know, then you'll be in trouble. And and I think maybe that was ingrained in for so long that I I just you know, even though my logical adult brain said that's BS, you know, it still was nearly impossible for me to actually speak about it.

John Jay Wiley (7:52): I'm glad you brought up the logical brain and not to be confused with the emotional brain or the memories. Look, there are things in my life that logically I knew this is not rational. This is not happening. However, I couldn't stop the emotional side of me and I couldn't stop the the response side of me to things that are coming.

Mike Elder (8:15): Right. Yeah. And that that was the thing that I think, for the longest time was hardest for me was even as a little kid, I knew this stuff wasn't wasn't right. Like, I I knew an adult doing what they were doing, saying what they were doing wasn't right. I had so many adults telling me the same thing, so it was kinda kinda hard.

Mike Elder (8:32): But I needed attention so bad that, you know, I went back. You know? I I it's not like it happened one time, and I fled and never went back. You know? It was such a you know, it fulfilled a need for me at the time, an emotional need.

Mike Elder (8:47): And, man, I mean, I I would go back and go back and go back. And looking back now, it's just so hard to believe that.

John Jay Wiley (8:53): I look at my notes and it says in the notes you were 10 to 11 years old when this was going on.

Mike Elder (9:00): Well, that's it definitely was going on then. I really put an end to it right around my twelfth birthday. I I don't even remember. There was a little girl moved into school that I just adored, and she was very pure, very innocent girl, and she was the nicest thing to me. And I was walking home one day, and this family who was part of the abuse cycle in my youth anyway had her talking to her in the driveway, and I lost my absolute mind on

John Jay Wiley (9:29): Let's take a short break on break on that note. We're talking with Mike Elder. Mike grew up with lots of abuse and it carried through his adult life. He is now an artist, does sculpture, murals, and cakes. He's well known for his cakes and you can find them on Facebook, Black Sheep Arts on Facebook.

Unknown Speaker (9:46): This is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (9:54): Someone asked, what's the catch? What's the cost? There is no cost for anything on the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast website, letradio.com. Letradio.com. Again, that's letradio.com.

John Jay Wiley (10:17): During conversation with Mike Elder on the law enforcement talk radio show, Mike was there's no really easy way of putting this, and there's no really sanitized way of putting this. He was the victim of child abuse. Sexual child abuse growing up had a profound impact on him as an adult. He is, now an artist and has been for quite a while, and he could say art is part of his escape. He does sculptures, murals, and he's a world famous cake artist.

John Jay Wiley (10:42): Look for him on Facebook, Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. There's Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. I get the black sheep thing cause sometimes I feel like I have four younger sisters and sometimes I think I'm the black sheep in a family.

Mike Elder (10:55): Oh, well, I had two older sisters and they were both kind of the golden children of my family. Definitely embraced that idea.

Unknown Speaker (11:04): Then came you. It's not such a bad thing either, but where did you grow up?

Mike Elder (11:11): So I grew up South Side Of Kansas City, Missouri. It was kind of the edge of town, honestly, at the time or kind of in a weird area where we you know, I always kinda joke that it was kinda Huckleberry Finn like. You know? It was wilderness. There was a big huge horse pasture.

Mike Elder (11:26): We had creeks. We had caves, we had everything you could think of. And then we had the hardcore city too.

Unknown Speaker (11:32): Right. So you and how would you describe other than this stuff happening, how would you describe your childhood?

Mike Elder (11:38): Man, I mean, it's funny because I always think my childhood was pretty good. You know, I had lots of friends. I loved art. You know, always had a hard time in school. You know, if they had ADHD back then, I'm sure that I was the poster child

Unknown Speaker (11:52): for that. Drugged up, and I'd have been slurring my words and drooling on the desk.

Mike Elder (11:56): Man, I I tell you, the punishment for talking and being rowdy in class was they made you stand on the line at recess. And I I looking back, that makes no sense. A kid with all the energy and all that stuff, the one opportunity he has to go outside, you're gonna make him stand there.

John Jay Wiley (12:10): I remember getting report cards and say, man, he has so much potential, but all he does is talk in class. And if I can get him to shut up, he could learn.

Unknown Speaker (12:19): Right.

Unknown Speaker (12:20): Yep. And I was telling telling jokes, magic tricks, you name it. As and I was a good kid up until fourth grade. After that, I don't know what happened.

Mike Elder (12:28): Yep. Yeah. I think I was kinda similar. I mean, I I was always performing. You know, I think maybe I still have that.

Unknown Speaker (12:35): You know, I felt guilty about that at times, but nowadays I just really embrace it.

John Jay Wiley (12:39): So how did this and I apologize in advance because I'm gonna seem abrupt, but how did this abuse, this sexual abuse get started?

Mike Elder (12:49): You know, pretty slow, man. I was raised really hyper focused on sex, my father especially, but for some reason, my mother as well. And I I don't it wasn't sexual. It was just about me being a boy and me being somewhat different supposedly, and I I don't know what her fascination was with it. But, you know, it it just anytime anybody was nice to me about being a boy, being who I was, know, man, it just it just invigorated me so much.

Mike Elder (13:22): But it made it really easy for people to prey on me. You know, all they had to do was tell me I was special and that they were doing something nice for me, and I, you know, I was all in.

John Jay Wiley (13:33): And here's here's the thing. I'm and I'm looking at my notes again. 10 to 11 years old. I at that time, all I thought about was and I didn't think about sex at all. I thought about models, going to car races, you name it.

John Jay Wiley (13:45): I was all into cars and stuff. I had no interest in that.

Mike Elder (13:49): Oh, yeah. Me me too. I mean, my dad owned a Corvette restoration shop. So cars and bicycles and mechanical things still, and, you know, it's it's what I love. But but, yeah, there was that weird side, and it was just kinda everywhere when I was a kid.

Mike Elder (14:03): Like any place you went, had dirty magazines and that kind of stuff just by the piles.

John Jay Wiley (14:09): And I hate to ask this. Do you think that people Well, there's a term that's used quite often and it's called grooming. I think there's an intentional act by pedophiles trying to get the attention and shape the behavior of their intended victims. There's unintentional grooming from people like parents. Let's Would talk about your parents.

John Jay Wiley (14:31): Do you think there was unintentional on their part?

Mike Elder (14:34): A 100%. I know that they'd be horribly upset with me for saying so, and, honestly, I haven't talked to them in probably fifteen years. But, you know, it it was always there's something wrong with you, Michael. You know, we don't know why, but it's probably because you're a boy, and here's what you need to do to fix it. And what you needed to do to fix it was be sexually attractive, was to be outgoing, was to be better than everybody else and, you know, draw attention.

Mike Elder (15:03): You know, I remember I used to wink at women when I was really little, and it was you know, it's cute because I was a little blonde headed boy, and I'd wink at cute girls at the grocery store or whatever. And, know, man, that that was so reinforced. And I that's super kind of innocent, but when you add all the other things to it, boy, it it was kind of a recipe for for a lifelong obsession, really.

John Jay Wiley (15:27): I take the approach this way with with people like parents. And, again, I'll reiterate, nothing like this ever happened to me. I had a an idyllic childhood. But, you know, I believe that parents and I'm a parent. I have my daughters are in their thirties now.

John Jay Wiley (15:41): They're great people. But you do the best you can with what you have. And as you know better, you do better. As you earn more, you do better. All those things occur.

Unknown Speaker (15:52): Is that the case with you? Is that the mindset you take?

Mike Elder (15:55): Yeah. I mean, you know, I I have two daughters and a a son. My youngest is 19. But, yeah, it it definitely makes you kinda open your eyes to what your actions do. And that's not to say I haven't made a bajillion mistakes in my lifetime.

Mike Elder (16:12): But, boy, you know, you do try to do better.

John Jay Wiley (16:14): So let's go into very quickly before we take a break. You were how old when this first started?

Mike Elder (16:22): I'm gonna say probably nine, 10, somewhere in there. It's really I I don't remember even to be honest with you. I just know it was pretty young, and it was really gentle at the beginning and then became pretty intense later.

John Jay Wiley (16:35): And was this someone your family knew?

Mike Elder (16:38): Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was actually several different people my family knew, but primarily one one pair of people in in particular that really kind of pushed me over the edge anyways.

John Jay Wiley (16:51): And I hate to say this because I know right now people are thinking there's, and I'll call it is, there's victim blaming. And there's a lot of that going on, they'll they'll say nine year old somehow another they asked for it. They didn't ask for it because they didn't know about this.

Mike Elder (17:08): Right. Right. Yeah. And again, like I said, it was all framed to me as education. It's like, you're gonna be so great when you're older because you're gonna know all these things that women want you to know.

Mike Elder (17:20): And, you know, you're gonna just be such a ladies' man because you're so well educated, and you're welcome.

John Jay Wiley (17:26): Right. I I I get that mindset. I under I'm not saying I approve of it. I I understand it. One of the things that I remember having a conversation with one of my daughters and I was like, the thing about sex is this.

John Jay Wiley (17:41): And this is my conversation with her. It's an adult thing. The minute you start engaging in that, you can never go back to being a child.

Unknown Speaker (17:50): Right.

Unknown Speaker (17:51): It changes everything.

Unknown Speaker (17:52): Yeah. Oh, it for sure does.

Unknown Speaker (17:55): Was that the case for you?

Mike Elder (17:57): Oh, for sure. I mean, I I you know, I the only time I can remember, like, really feeling good about myself as a really young kid was when that stuff was going on. And, you know, that's just amazing for to look back in and think, and then the shame that came with that. So it it's this weird mixture of I was proud of myself because I had this secret identity, but at the same time, you know, ashamed of myself because I knew deep down that this was wrong.

John Jay Wiley (18:26): We're talking with Mike Elder. Mike grew up with lots of abuse as a child, lots of trauma, lots of sexual abuse as a child. He's an artist, and you could say art has been his escape even though it's been a lifelong passion. He does sculpture, murals, and he's a world famous cake artist. Check out his Facebook page, Black Sheep Arts on Facebook.

John Jay Wiley (18:44): That's Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. We turn to law enforcement talk radio show. We'll talk about what happened and the impacts on him. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

John Jay Wiley (18:56): You can find us on Facebook. Just search for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to click like. Return conversation with Mike Elder on the law enforcement talk radio show. Mike was a victim of child abuse, sexual child abuse throughout his childhood, which he'll talk about in a few moments, had a tremendous impact on him in his formative years, his teenage years, his adult years. He is an a world famous cake artist.

John Jay Wiley (19:27): He does sculptures, murals as well. Check him out. Look for him on Facebook under Black Sheep Arts. That's Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. Mike, and and without getting overly graphic, you said this was more than one person, and they are people your family knew.

John Jay Wiley (19:46): Of the things that I always say is you gotta be really careful with aunts, uncles, boyfriends, certain neighbors. And then there's also people that seek access to children, scout leaders, members of the clergy, you name it. There there there's it's been everywhere.

Mike Elder (20:08): Yep. Well, I mean, you know, these people were friends of my family, and and, you know, they were people that I was told respect. And, you know, any any adult you you listened to, and you did what you were told. And, you know, I remember when things really went bad, and I, you know, I like I said, they were talking to my young female friend, and I lost my mind on these people. And I finally broke down and told my mother what was going on.

Unknown Speaker (20:34): And how were you when is the curve?

Mike Elder (20:35): Was afraid to admit that it was happening or whatever, but she threw me in the car, and we drove over to their house and made me apologize to these people you know, for saying what I had said about them. There was no discussion of is any of this real? Did he make this up? It was just literally, he's making this up. You know?

Mike Elder (20:56): You need to apologize to these people. And she took me to the worst place to make me do it. And, boy, did I pay the price.

John Jay Wiley (21:03): How old were you when this occurred?

Mike Elder (21:05): I think I was 11 when it happened. It was right around my birthday because, you know, of course, they played innocent. Oh my gosh. You know, we're so sorry that he said that and that he feels this way. And and, you know, next thing I know, I'm in a field digging my own grave while this guy's standing there laughing with a, you know, with a gun pointing it at me.

Mike Elder (21:26): You know, that's that's a pretty, pretty intense punishment.

Unknown Speaker (21:29): That's very intense.

Mike Elder (21:31): Yeah. I'm kind of laughing, but that's not a funny thing for me. It's a definite thing. I will never forget that feeling.

John Jay Wiley (21:41): I think it's a natural reaction to What's the old saying? We laugh instead of cry.

Unknown Speaker (21:47): Right. Right.

John Jay Wiley (21:48): And there's certain things. And by the way, I I do cry periodically, not very often, but when I do, I can guarantee it's by myself. It's in private. I don't do it where everybody can see it.

Mike Elder (21:58): Right. No. And, you know, and that was the same thing. I mean, you know, be tough. You know?

Mike Elder (22:03): Don't share your emotions, and, you know, I'm right there with you, man. I cry more often than I I care to admit these days, and so much of it is just, I think, just a release. You know, man, I I feel like I cry over everything anymore.

Unknown Speaker (22:16): I'm such a softy when it comes

Unknown Speaker (22:18): to watching the sunset.

John Jay Wiley (22:19): The television and commercials and don't even I can't even watch a Hallmark channel because I I know it's gonna happen, but I'm gonna get a sobbing mess.

Unknown Speaker (22:27): Oh, yeah. Puppy videos. Forget it.

John Jay Wiley (22:29): Forget it. I'm right there with you. And sometimes and I guess this is a question or I'll pose this as a question. Sometimes I feel like the the only person I can talk to who's not human is my dog.

Mike Elder (22:42): Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why, like, for me, it was just recording myself talking, and I ended up sharing it a day or so later just because for some reason that, you know, you you say it to the wind kind of thing. You know, it's one thing to to think about it and to talk about it in silence.

Mike Elder (23:01): But, you know, to me, letting the balloon loose and watching it fly away is kinda kinda how I look at it.

Unknown Speaker (23:07): The other thing and this this is a question. So when you told your parents about this, it didn't go the way you thought it would go?

Mike Elder (23:15): No. I I expected the, oh my god. I'm so sorry, the huge hug, the whole and instead it was rage. It was anger. And, you know, and and it probably was real anger, and maybe she, you know, thought that that's what was happening.

Mike Elder (23:29): You know, maybe she actually did believe me and that by going there, that was her way of of testing it, but I I genuinely I don't I don't know.

John Jay Wiley (23:37): The other thing is you you mentioned earlier in the conversation, you haven't talked to your parents about fifteen years.

Mike Elder (23:43): Yeah. I mean, my my mother was very passive aggressive, and things just kinda continued to spiral most of my life. You know? I've I've been a people pleaser, and I think a lot of times people that grow up with the background that I do, that's what you become. And I know it, and I'm still that way.

Mike Elder (23:59): And I'm not I'm not ashamed of that at all. I I'm happy to be that person. But there has to be balance in it. You know? You have to all this sounds selfish, but you always have to come first.

Unknown Speaker (24:10): Yeah.

Mike Elder (24:10): You know, if it damages me in the long run, I I can't do it.

John Jay Wiley (24:14): And one of the things I learned in this starting the police academy, we're talking about investigating sex crimes against children. And for example, I'm gonna use five year olds as an example. A five year old tells you they've been sexually abused and they point to parts of their body and they use adult language, they got taught that. Believe Right.

Mike Elder (24:37): Yeah. This isn't something that, you know, a kid that age makes up. You know? And we didn't have the Internet then. You know?

Mike Elder (24:43): I didn't have access to news very often. It was on TV if I did, and, you know, it was definitely something that, you know, I and me nowadays, I sure would have taken a lot more seriously.

John Jay Wiley (24:54): That's the the other thing. So you were about 11 years old or 12 years old when you put an end to this, and it was involving, I would say I had a crush on a neighbor girl when I was about that age. She never didn't know existed, but that's neither here nor there. But you didn't get the reaction you wanted and you got a really bad reaction from the the the abusers.

Mike Elder (25:21): Right. Oh, yeah. And, I mean, it it ended up me mean, I I don't know if I should talk about it or not, but, literally, they shoved me down into a basement at one point or he did. And I landed on a pipe, I think, was part of a barbell. And, man, all I know is he put his hand on me.

Mike Elder (25:39): I turned around and started swinging that thing until, you know, his wife yelled my full name, which always kinda puts me at a pause. Nobody calls me Michael.

Unknown Speaker (25:48): Right.

Mike Elder (25:49): It's always Mike. And she yelled that name and I stopped and I literally thought I had killed this guy. Turns out I didn't really do much damage at all, but I sure thought I did at the time.

John Jay Wiley (26:00): No. I look. That's I would think that's a normal reaction. Enough's enough.

Mike Elder (26:05): Right. I I think that was it. I mean, I I don't remember anything until she yelled my name. And, you know, then it dawned on me, holy cow, what I had done. And so, of course, I, you know, I fled and hid out.

Mike Elder (26:18): And we had, like I said, a cave near our house, well, kind of a cave, and hid out. And when I finally came home, you know, after being gone for a very long time, you know, my my mother I walked in the door and not oh my gosh. Where have you been? Or anything like that. You know, I literally thought the cops were coming to arrest me.

Mike Elder (26:37): And I walk in the door, she tells me we're having fish sticks. You know? That was the comment and I'll never forget that.

John Jay Wiley (26:45): Was just Traumatized by fish sticks growing up as

Unknown Speaker (26:48): a kid. Right. Yeah.

John Jay Wiley (26:49): They were never the Gordons of Gloucester fishermen fish sticks. They were always the Navy Exchange cheapies.

Unknown Speaker (26:55): Oh, yeah. Yes. The other ones with the weird bird or whatever on its on the box.

John Jay Wiley (27:00): And they were horrible. They were just flat up. But enough of that. We're gonna talk in a few moments about the impact on you. As a matter of fact, let's fast forward because I I'm I'm in a way fascinated with your transition from childhood to teenage years knowing this is going on, and you're and you're probably if you got the reaction you did, you're not gonna tell the soul.

Mike Elder (27:27): Oh, no. No. And and funny enough, you know, I I met my kids' mom, I think my sophomore year of high school, and she and I started dating immediately, you know, but I was very protective of her. I felt like I, you know, that was something that I was my whole life. You know, but man, I had such a twisted idea of what a relationship should be for so long, and ultimately, that's what ended that relationship.

Mike Elder (27:51): You know, it really didn't have much to do with her. It was my crazy idea of what being a man was and and, you know, what she should do in response to it. And, man, yeah, it it definitely affected.

John Jay Wiley (28:04): Well, that's, to goes with territory of learning and becoming educated, number one. That's without going through what you went through in your childhood. When we return on law enforcement talk radio show, our conversation with Mike Elder, he's gonna talk a little bit about his transition into art, what he does today, and how it could be a salvation. And he's also gonna share some of the warning signs that parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles need to be aware of to protect their children from similar. This is law enforcement talk radio show.

Unknown Speaker (28:30): Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. How would you like to improve your health? Let's get healthy. Tips you can use today for free.

John Jay Wiley (28:42): They don't require any money at all. You can download a free ebook, 15 tips to improve your health at lethealthy.com. That's lethealthy.com. Again, it's lethealthy.com, and let's get healthy for free. During our conversation with Mike Elder on the law enforcement talk show, Mike, his contact is from Missouri outside of Kansas City.

John Jay Wiley (29:11): He grew up with lots of trauma as a child, lots of sexual abuse, and it affected impacted his teenage years, his relationships, his adult years, all of that. He'll talk about that in a few moments. Plus he's gonna give some of the warning signs parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles need to be aware of to protect their children from similar. He is a world famous cake artist. He does sculpture, murals as well, and look him up on Facebook.

John Jay Wiley (29:37): Look for Black Sheep Arts. That's Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. Now, Mike, when I talk to you, it sounds like you're talking about something that oh, by the way, this occurred to a guy I know. It doesn't sound like it happened to you. You're you're handling it very well.

Mike Elder (29:52): Yeah. I and, honestly, man, sometimes it feels like that. I feel like I've lived five different lives. You know, I I think the main thing is just trying to figure out because, you know, like I said, for the longest part of my life, for what, 90% of my life, I I wouldn't have ever admitted it. I wouldn't have talked to you about it.

Mike Elder (30:09): I definitely wouldn't have shared, like, specifics. But, man, you know, there's that's a terrible thing to eat away at a guy for a really long time.

John Jay Wiley (30:19): I remember my first real girlfriend that I had, and I wound up making amends to her probably twenty years ago. And what I basically said to her was, look. A lot of stuff that we went through when we were youngsters was because of me. I didn't know how to handle things, and I didn't have

Unknown Speaker (30:36): the Right.

Unknown Speaker (30:36): Obstacles that you had. It had nothing to do with the even though I blamed you for it at the time, it had nothing to do with all me.

Mike Elder (30:43): Oh, 100. So my my kids' mom. You know, I have three kids with her. She's knows me better than any human being in the world, and, you know, I I'll probably never be as close to anyone as her. But, you know, same thing.

Mike Elder (30:56): She had her own stuff, and, you know, my parents being as they were didn't help during our relationship. You know, they really tore things apart. But I've I feel like I've had that moment with every woman I've ever been with. It's like, hey. Look.

Mike Elder (31:09): You know, there was issues with me. I mean, they may have had issues too, but, you know, there was definitely things with me that, you know, I couldn't share with you, didn't share with you. And, you know, it it's it's that hurts. That hurts a lot knowing that you were responsible for that. But, you know, my kids' mom, I blamed her at one point for everything that was wrong in my life.

Mike Elder (31:30): And part of it was because my parents were telling me that's the reason, you know, and, man, that's that's a that's a bad bad thing. You know, you gotta take responsibility for yourself no matter why you're in that boat.

John Jay Wiley (31:42): Well, the old saying was, if I'm pointing my finger at everybody else, their fault, it's their right, the reason why the world is wrong with me, eventually the problem is not them, it's me.

Mike Elder (31:52): Oh, there's common denominator in everything, and and you're the common denominator in everything. I I've sought out, like, damaged people most of my life. You know, it's because that's what my mother was one of the most damaged people I've ever known, and and she relied on me to communicate with my dad, and and she would tell me things that she wouldn't tell anyone else. So, you know, as a little bitty kid, I'm dealing with all her stuff and packing it away and trying to figure out how to make her happy. And I just really thought this is what you do.

Mike Elder (32:23): And when people aren't happy, well, then it must be my fault. And then you start getting resentful. And, it's a spiral that's gone over and over in my life.

John Jay Wiley (32:32): How did you get, I'm sure it's a long journey. You're not there yet. You're like most people. But how did you get happier?

Mike Elder (32:40): Man, I I tell you, I I cut out a lot of negative people in my life. I realized that, man, I have you around because you feed that need in me. You know, if if someone was in my life because I felt like I needed to fix them and I was always doing things for them that cost me emotionally and and often financially and physically, You know, I just kinda started backing away, and those people don't like it when you do that. They get pretty mad.

John Jay Wiley (33:09): No. I I said and part of it is and it it sounds really selfish, but and there's nothing wrong being selfish. I personally believe there's a big difference being self centered, can be very negative and being selfish.

Mike Elder (33:20): Yes. Right. Well and and, you know, I I try to share it, like, all the time with friends and people that I care about. It's like the thing that I try to do for myself. Like, if if a friend of mine came to me and said, Mike, man, I really screwed up, and I did this or that or I caused this to somebody, I would forgive them.

Mike Elder (33:39): You know? I'd oh, man. You know, that sucks, dude. Don't do that again. Right.

Mike Elder (33:42): But it's gonna be alright. And I never allowed that for myself. And so these days, I think the thing that helps me the most is just being ridiculously over the top forgiving of Mike. Like, just, dude, you know, whatever you did today, I didn't do anything. I laid in bed and and did nothing because I just didn't feel like getting up.

Mike Elder (34:00): You know what? Who cares, man? It's fine. Cool. Make use of tomorrow.

Mike Elder (34:05): If not, then make use of the day after. And but that goes a long ways.

John Jay Wiley (34:09): I had to learn, and I'm still learning, that to be kind to myself and to give myself credit for accomplishing good things. And I tend to focus on the negative more so than the positive.

Mike Elder (34:22): Right. Yeah. I mean, the human brain is is horribly flawed. It's it's meant to protect you from damage and from things that will hurt you. So you always focus on that.

Mike Elder (34:32): It's just what your brain does.

Unknown Speaker (34:33): That's right.

Mike Elder (34:34): And, man, being able to get up in the morning, go, man, whatever happens today, you're good. You've done good. You're trying to do good. I forgive you for everything in your entire life that you feel guilty for. You know, that unapologetically forgiving goes so far.

Unknown Speaker (34:50): It really does.

John Jay Wiley (34:51): Before we go into your art journeys, what are some of the things in your experience that people need to be aware of to protect their children or their grandchildren, nieces, and nephews from sexual abuse?

Mike Elder (35:05): Yeah. I I would say I mean, especially nowadays, it's so easy to prey on a kid. But, you know, I I have a friend who's going through it right now with a a granddaughter, and the granddaughter's telling him this happened. Like, you should probably believe him. You know, you mentioned it earlier too.

Mike Elder (35:19): You know, if a little kid is telling you something that doesn't match their maturity level that this is happening to me, you know, chances are that's a good reason to at least be really concerned and and to maybe limit contact somebody or or whatever. But I I think that was the biggest thing is I never felt like I was heard. I never felt like I was paid attention to, and, you know, that can that can go a long ways.

John Jay Wiley (35:42): One of the things that a prior guest, and he's a retired state trooper that investigated child pornography and predators and all that stuff. He he said the number one thing he would recommend as parents is learning to have good communication with your children.

Mike Elder (35:57): Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's like I said, my communication between my family as a kid was horrific. Like, nobody wanted to talk to each other.

Mike Elder (36:07): Anything that hurt you or was difficult, you just didn't talk about. You got mad and you you did, you know, bad to each other, but you never physically spoke of it. And just being able to let a kid know that it's okay to talk to me, that I'm not gonna lose my mind because you have an opinion or because you have something to tell me, that's huge.

John Jay Wiley (36:28): Let's talk about your art career. And you're kind of a and you're you've you didn't mention this once. You're kind of a big deal, especially when it comes to to cake sculptures, aren't you?

Mike Elder (36:38): Yeah. I mean, I've I've been on, I think, over 19 different TV episodes now. That's kind of

Unknown Speaker (36:43): a big deal.

Mike Elder (36:45): Yeah. Well, I mean, the the biggest claim to fame that people always get the most excited about is, like, I do, like, Gordon Ramsay's birthday cake. Uh-huh. I I do cakes for festivals, for all kinds of stuff. I've got Guinness World Records.

Mike Elder (36:59): You know, I I made a cake car one time and shoved Michael Andretti down a hill in basically a cake soapbox derby car. So it's it's definitely been an interesting ride, man.

John Jay Wiley (37:11): And by the way, my wife and I watched this, documentary about being Gordon Ramsey, and we thought it was phenomenal. We I I had no idea about this guy and his background. None.

Mike Elder (37:21): Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first time I I ever met him, you know, we we were in Springfield, Missouri having dinner with a big group of people for a big food show, and he was eating chicken wings. And, you know, here we are in this little restaurant, and that whole time, I'm, like, waiting for the Gordon Ramsay experience. And finally, you know, I'm like, hey, man.

Mike Elder (37:41): What do you what do you think at dinner? And he's like, you know what? And he called me by my name. He says, you know what, Mike? He's like, it's really good.

Mike Elder (37:47): He's like, the waiters are doing a good job. The food is hot. The food is good. He's like, I couldn't complain. I'm like One

Unknown Speaker (37:54): of the things that

Unknown Speaker (37:54): I can take

John Jay Wiley (37:55): from him and I think applies to you and me as well is that he's incredibly hard on himself, but he's not as hard as he's not as hard on other people.

Mike Elder (38:05): Well, you know, and and, like, the first time I did his birthday cake was at a big casino opening at a restaurant of his, and his birthday was the next day. And I set the cake up, and long story short, I go to sit down, and his manager comes over. He's like, Mike Mike, we need you. And I'm like, holy Gordon hates the cake. You know?

Mike Elder (38:23): And you expect to see Gordon Ramsey kicking the table. This cake is Yeah. Kicking it over. And I walk into the room, and he's got a hold of it, carrying it across the room. This is a big tall cake that I had made.

Mike Elder (38:34): You know? I wouldn't wanna do that. And he's very carefully carrying it, and he sits it down real gentle on another table. And I walk up. He's like, oh, that other table was He's like, the light was terrible for your cake.

Mike Elder (38:44): I wanted it over here so photographed better.

Unknown Speaker (38:46): There we go. By the way

Unknown Speaker (38:48): Come on, man. I mean, he cared enough about my cake.

John Jay Wiley (38:51): It. That's I think we we see the public persona of what someone's supposed to be like, and it's not the the the entirety of the person. Mike, I wanna thank you for your time. If you wanna get more information about Mike and what he does, go to look up Black Sheep Arts on Facebook. That's Black Sheep Arts on Facebook.

John Jay Wiley (39:07): Again, thanks for being a guest on Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Very much appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker (39:11): Yeah, man. I appreciate it. I've I've had a good time being here. Thank you.

John Jay Wiley (39:14): If you wanna be a guest on the law enforcement talk radio show, simply contact us. It couldn't be easier. You can send us a message on Facebook. Look for and like the law enforcement talk radio show page or email jay@letradio.com. That's jay@letradio.com.

John Jay Wiley (39:34): I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the law enforcement talk radio show. The law enforcement talk radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM and FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of law enforcement talk radio show and podcast.

John Jay Wiley (40:03): Until then, this is John Jay Wiley. See