Anger Was A Symptom

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John Jay Wiley (1:01): He is currently a police chief. He's retired from a police department in Pennsylvania, and he found out that trauma from his childhood combined with trauma of police work resulted in severe anger issues. He's here to talk about that, his resolution and recovery. Welcome to the law enforcement talk radio show. In the law enforcement talk radio show, we are joined by special guest talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes.

John Jay Wiley (1:31): Plus, those who've experienced horrendous trauma, police, first responders, military, and victims of crime share their stories. Hi. I'm John Jay Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com, and also like us on Facebook.

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John Jay Wiley (2:31): So you too can stay informed quickly, easily, and best of all, like always, free. Joining us on the law enforcement talk radio show, we have Ron Camacho on the show. He is a police chief in is it North Charleston, South Carolina. There's too many north and south in there, Ron.

Unknown Speaker (2:49): Thank you. Thank you for having me.

John Jay Wiley (2:51): By the way, Ron is retired from the York City Police Powerade in Pennsylvania, York, Pennsylvania. His website, if you wanna get more details about him, what he does, net. And camachoconsulting if you want more information about being a police officer in South Carolina, this is the guy you should listen to. Ron, thanks for your service, number one. And number two, thanks for being a guest on Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show and talk about it.

Unknown Speaker (3:14): Very much appreciated.

Unknown Speaker (3:16): Thank you. Again, thank you for having me on.

John Jay Wiley (3:18): It's good to have you on. And by the way, I remember because York, Pennsylvania was not too far from where I used to live. I used to live in Freeland, Maryland off of I-eighty 3. And back then, always wanna say compared to Baltimore, at least I thought York was a sleepy little town and there was nothing bad happening there. I really got fetched up sharply that bad stuff happens there just like it happens everywhere.

Ron Camacho (3:44): Yeah. We were a tough little place there, population about 40,000. I guess it's jumped up to about 44,000 now, about forty minutes north of Baltimore. But a were a transit place for New York drug dealers, drug dealers coming in from Philadelphia, and people from Baltimore coming up fighting with the local the locals there over drug spots, and we were pretty violent when I started my career in 1995.

Unknown Speaker (4:12): So you started in '95. When did you retire from there?

Ron Camacho (4:16): I retired there in 2013. I bought military time and retired two years early, and I got my pension. And, I went to Afghanistan, believe it or not, as a police advisor. Wow. My stress level went away immediately.

John Jay Wiley (4:30): Isn't funny how you go from York, Pennsylvania to Afghanistan and your stress level decreases?

Ron Camacho (4:37): Incredibly, because I was only responsible for myself and no longer responsible for anybody else when I went to Afghanistan. Yeah. A war zone and no stress whatsoever.

John Jay Wiley (4:48): It doesn't seem like it makes sense, but and by the way, I I tell people this all the time. For me, the the problems with policing didn't really start when I was on a job. It started when things got quiet, when I retired, and I didn't have a suitable replacement for it because I knew what to do with my job. And the more trauma and drama and fear and excitement and life threatening stuff going on, the better I did is when things got really quiet and boring that I really started to self destruct.

Ron Camacho (5:19): You know, right now, I'm having the time of my life here in my my new department. I've been here for about a year and a half. I love it. Department of, 320 officers, 400 total with the civilians, and, I can't see myself retiring anytime soon, but I've done many things different things to to address my trauma. So I'm a different person.

Ron Camacho (5:40): I'm in a different headspace, and, I can't see myself retiring. I think if I retired, I drop dead within a month.

John Jay Wiley (5:48): Well, part of the problem for me and by the way, Baltimore was not we you talked about this earlier. Baltimore is not far from New York. I remember being in the academy, and I started in 1980 and retired in '92. Got hurt and retired. But we had a major at the time talking about the average life expectancy for a Baltimore police officer then in 1980 was 52.

John Jay Wiley (6:06): They usually have two years after retiring. Now the average life expectancy for American police officers, male police officers, don't quote me on this, but I believe I saw is 58, while the average life expectancy for American men is 73.

Ron Camacho (6:21): Yeah. It's crazy. And I'm always, talking to my troops when they're getting ready to retire. I believe in in talking to them about life after policing, and I heavily invest in them as far as what they wanna do. What do you wanna do after retirement?

Ron Camacho (6:37): Do you wanna stay in the profession? I will help you. And if you wanna get out and do business, I have connections in that world to help you do that too. So I'm always telling them, don't start thinking about retirement two years out. We gotta start developing you.

Ron Camacho (6:53): We gotta start planning that years before, and they appreciate that I'm having those conversations with them way before, you know, that retirement date comes.

John Jay Wiley (7:02): Well, when when the retirement comes and by the way, that's when you expect to retire. When you get hurt and retired young, I look. And I said there was a lot of positives about that, but my pay got cut from from to roughly 66% of what I was making before. And my health insurance tripled immediately on the spot. So it's not like I could afford to live the fine and fancy life.

Ron Camacho (7:25): Yeah. That's super unfortunate. And nowadays, there are supplemental insurances out there and there are other different nonprofits that are there to help officers out when that occurs. Life has changed a lot from when we were young rookies or when you were young officer that we've noticed and trying to take care of officers when you know, trying to make up for the mistakes that happened when we were young officers.

John Jay Wiley (7:55): Well, looking at the job now is different being a police chief than it was being a sergeant. And by the way, that's where I retired, and I love being a sergeant. It was great. But there was a different job responsibility as a police officer and a sergeant. A totally different there's gotta be a totally different responsibility in area of coverage for police chiefs.

Ron Camacho (8:14): Yeah. You know, I used to think that the sergeant was the most important job in any sort of police department. That's how much power and responsibility they had. But once I was around certain chiefs and knew how they can drive a department, whether that was in the positive or negative way, I changed my mind, and I knew that it was number one, a chief, number two, a sergeant, and then a field training officer. Everybody in between, they had their little say, but a chief can really drive a department into the ground or they, a good chief can rise it up, you know, in spite of many different things.

John Jay Wiley (8:54): And and by the way, you gotta have broad shoulders and be be prepared to take a lot of abuse. You're gonna take a lot of criticism in that job.

Unknown Speaker (9:01): I was just as a chief?

Unknown Speaker (9:03): As a chief.

Ron Camacho (9:05): Yeah. I was just in the newspaper just this Saturday, had an op ed against me, because, somebody leaked a memo that I a memo about me referencing me following a policy that they didn't agree with. It is, you know, I've got rhino skin, but that rhino skin was developed working the streets, working cases when I was a detective, and just doing regular police work, you develop that skin.

John Jay Wiley (9:33): You do. And I hate to cut you off, but you learn that, by the way, people say, want Facebook page in particular, the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page. They'll say, well, that person shouldn't be allowed here. I'm like, I want to say so badly, if you were a police, you were used to being called names and it's not a big deal.

Ron Camacho (9:56): Yeah. My wife, she amazed she's amazed at my ability to bounce back. You know? You have a you have a bad day. You know?

Ron Camacho (10:04): The world seems like it's crumbling. You know? I go home. I pet my dog. Take him from a walk.

Ron Camacho (10:10): Talk to my wife. The next day, boom. Ready, reset, ready to go.

John Jay Wiley (10:14): Rest loud and repeat. That's the instructions on the back of the shampoo bottle. We're talking to Ron Camacho. He's the current police chief in North Charleston, South Carolina. He's retired from York City Police Department in Pennsylvania.

John Jay Wiley (10:25): We're about talking his childhood trauma he went through, combating with trauma of police work, and and how that affected him and how he has gotten beyond that. This is law enforcement talk radio show. Oh, by the way, if wanna get more information about him, go to his website, camachoconsulting.net. This is law enforcement talk radio show, we'll take a short break. We'll be right back.

John Jay Wiley (10:46): Of all the radio stations in The United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show. And on Facebook, there's only one official page. Do a search Facebook for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show and be sure to like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page.

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John Jay Wiley (12:12): Returning conversation with Ron Camacho on the law enforcement talk radio show. Ron is the police chief for North Charleston, South Carolina. I know there's a lot of north and souths in there, but he is a retired York, Pennsylvania police officer. And he is his website, if you wanna get more details about what he does, camachoconsulting.net. This camachoconsulting.net.

John Jay Wiley (12:33): I gotta say this, Ron. When it comes to police names, Ron Camacho is pretty high there.

Ron Camacho (12:40): Unless it gets butchered, which it does often.

John Jay Wiley (12:43): I'm sure. And I well, one of the things that that we knew and I this is one thing I ask a lot of my guests who are police. One thing, you knew you robbed in police work when you you're a nickname from the community, especially the bad guys. Did you have a nickname?

Ron Camacho (12:57): My nickname was Kamach. That's that's what I got called, and that was mainly from the officers. I really didn't have a nickname from the community. You know? I I was a pretty square guy when I was a detective, so I I never gained that that great nickname.

Unknown Speaker (13:13): Always wanted one.

Unknown Speaker (13:14): Always had kidding.

Unknown Speaker (13:14): Always was a little jealous. Yeah. A little jealous

Unknown Speaker (13:17): Mine of the were

Unknown Speaker (13:18): the narcs.

John Jay Wiley (13:19): Bigfoot because I wear a size thirteen foot too. Uh-huh. Deep Thirk was my voice, and the other one was big head because I have a really big noggin. And that's that's quite alright. So but and by the way, other places, they called me those names left and right, more so than the the bad guys, but some of the bad guys did as well because my name is not that difficult, but other ones.

John Jay Wiley (13:40): So let's talk about your career. One thing I noticed about policing, and this is something the old times have told me, it's gonna really aggravate you and drag out the worst part of you if you let it. Did you find that to be a case of you?

Ron Camacho (13:57): What I found was I really wasn't equipped to deal with the stress. I didn't know how to deal with stress, and that had to do with, you know, what I experienced as a child and just not having the tools to know how to adequately deal with stress. I stuffed everything down. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I never did a drug in my life. And I remember going to the dentist once, and the dentist saying, what what are you doing, man?

Ron Camacho (14:26): You're you're grinding your teeth, man. What? And he was just shocked at how badly I was grinding my teeth. He said I was the worst case ever of somebody grinding their teeth, and that was way back in, like, 1996, '97, and I've been wearing a mouth guard ever since. You know?

Ron Camacho (14:44): So it's stuffing stuff in, and that's the way I was doing stuff, which is not the correct way to deal with stress.

John Jay Wiley (14:52): One of the things I was taught, and this is a great saying, is that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything means look like a nail. And that's the way my life became after policing for a long time. It isn't that way today. But there are some times where I will not willingly, not consciously make a decision where I'll get rather the tools and the only tool I have is a hammer. But I I can understand that stress, and this is my response to it.

Ron Camacho (15:17): Yeah. A 100%. So, I was a pretty straightforward person. And some of this was you know, I always felt my self esteem was in the gutter. You know?

Ron Camacho (15:26): And part of that was always trying to prove to my father that, you know, get that approvement, get that approval from him. So I rose up the ranks very quickly, and I think my problems really, really started when, at 11, I was promoted to lieutenant, and I was put in charge of detective division. And now here I am eleven years on the job and thrusted into the world of supervising people that I was just working with not too long ago. Here I am supervising my boss

John Jay Wiley (15:58): Right.

Ron Camacho (15:58): From a couple years ago who has 30 on the job, a couple other, you know, long time, like, twenty eight year, twenty five year guys, and I was told to get them in line. Right? And what what's ironic when you look back is there were there were many lieutenants before me, who didn't weren't given that mission or who had run through there and did not do what I was tasked to do, or maybe they were told and didn't do it. But, you know, I took it serious, and I felt like I had to go in there super super, you know, serious, and part of that seriousness was anger to, you know, get get them to do what I wanted to do. It's my way or the highway.

Ron Camacho (16:39): You're not gonna violate this. You're gonna take this serious. I'm saying this. You're gonna follow my my rules. So a lot of that came with with anger, especially when they violated my rules or violated the policy, you know, and I pulled in.

Ron Camacho (16:54): It's, you know, for most people, eleven years is pretty young in a policing career to reach that level. I had like detectives there and we're a very busy place as you noted, you know. It wasn't like it was Mayberry. York was a violent place, you know, 20 for a population of 40,000 people at a time, averaging anywhere from 15 to 20 homicides a year, not including all the shootings and and robberies. We were a busy place, and that that responsibility fell on my shoulders to solve crime, make my people solve crime.

Ron Camacho (17:28): And Let's

John Jay Wiley (17:29): be honest. Part of that is trying to get the old salty guys, and I say guys, that's men and women, it's not gender specific, to do their job. Sometimes they're the worst.

Ron Camacho (17:41): Yeah. So one particular, my boss at the time, when I was a detective, he told me, because I was from outside. I grew up originally in New Jersey and

John Jay Wiley (17:53): You could tell you're not from Pennsylvania. You've got a different accent.

Ron Camacho (17:57): Right. I grew up from there. And when I worked as a detective, you know, here I am, the nondrinker, nonsmoker, and a lot of those guys partied. But a lot of those guys, their fathers were from there, they played softball together, and their fathers were all from the departments. It was a lot of history there.

Ron Camacho (18:13): And I didn't hold that against them, but my boss at the time told me, you'll never get my rank. You'll never become you know, get my position. You're not family. And that lit a fire under me on top of all the other that I had pushing me to to prove that I was something that self esteem issues, and I remembered that. So here I came back a couple years later, and I said, okay.

Ron Camacho (18:39): Now we're gonna do it my way. And, you know, probably within eight months, he retired. You know? There were were guys that were working drugs for twenty years. They were working burglaries.

Ron Camacho (18:52): You know? There were guys that were not on task forces. Were working out of the building. Now I got results. Those guys retired, left.

Ron Camacho (19:02): You know, some of them got moved to different areas, and many did retire. When I put Youngblood in there, they were successful, and they they they got the job done. But a lot of that caused, you know, issues with me.

Unknown Speaker (19:18): So did.

Unknown Speaker (19:19): That conflict, which is, you know Well, here's hard.

John Jay Wiley (19:21): It was easy. One of the things that we got a little bit of time left before go to break. One of the things when I got promoted to sergeant and they moved you to different cities. So a lot of what you talked about wasn't different parts of city. So a lot of what you talked about the same people you didn't encounter.

John Jay Wiley (19:37): I went from Northwest District Of Baltimore to Central District. But one of the things that I thought was I wanted a squad of guys like me. I wanted a bunch of go getters, bunch of proactive police. I wanted them to do the job. And then I realized it took a little while.

John Jay Wiley (19:53): I needed the report takers. I needed the the I would be writing nonstop if I had a crew like me.

Ron Camacho (19:59): Right. So here in this instance, you know, I had my I had all sorts. The the thing that I guess worked with with me and added that stress was the conflict. You know, the conflict, and it was like almost every day when I first got up there. The conflict of reeling people in that were not used to supervision.

Unknown Speaker (20:22): Oh, yeah. Know? Yeah. It was very difficult.

John Jay Wiley (20:25): They thought they had the retirement job. We're talking about Ron Camacho. He's the current police chief in South Carolina. We'll show him a few moments. He's retired from New York, Pennsylvania police department.

John Jay Wiley (20:35): And we're talking about trauma they went through and and how anger became an issue. His website, if you wanna get more details about him, is camachoconsulting.net. This is camachoconsulting.net. This is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere.

Unknown Speaker (20:47): I promise you. We'll be right back. Are you a fan of true crime, Joe's? How about true crime with a twist? People that actually investigated crimes, what they did, what they experienced, all for free.

John Jay Wiley (21:01): Just go to our website, letradio.com. It's lasinlincoln,easinedward,tasintom,radio.com.

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Unknown (21:31): Join today at simonplus.com. Rewards program terms apply. See simonplus.com for details.

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John Jay Wiley (22:44): We're doing conversation with Ron Camacho on a law enforcement talk radio show. Ron is a police chief in South Carolina, North Charleston, South Carolina. He's retired from New York, Pennsylvania police department, and he is, let's just say anger became a real issue from trauma during his police career, and trauma from his childhood and trauma from policing as well. His website is camachoconsulting.net. Camachoconsulting.net.

John Jay Wiley (23:10): I gotta ask you this question because we talked a little beforehand. The anger became a real issue, and you used the words you became a tyrant as a boss. Here's part of the problem. Anger is a great tool for me, but what it does is it pushes people away, and it pushes people away I depend on the most. And then I feel abandoned, guess what?

John Jay Wiley (23:29): I get angrier.

Ron Camacho (23:31): Yeah. It's that wasn't, for me, I had my crew that the the go getters, and they were on team Camacho. That wasn't an issue. The issue was me taking stuff personal for those that violated the rules. And as you know, this is a business and should be treated as a business in a lot of ways, and, we should remove emotions from that.

Ron Camacho (23:55): But I did not remove emotions for that. And eventually, when I became a captain, I was in charge of discipline, You know, I was getting angry for guys missing court. You know? I I took it personal. How dare you

Unknown Speaker (24:05): miss court? It has nothing to do with you at the time, but you you couldn't help but take it. They're disrespecting you.

Ron Camacho (24:11): Right. Exactly. And, you know, god forbid, if you if you were even on close to if I thought you were even close to, you know, being a little lying just a little bit or fibbing or fooling around with the truth, you know, you were gonna come into my office, I and was gonna make you pay. You I was gonna get tears from you. And I say that now, and I'm embarrassed to say that, but it was the truth.

Ron Camacho (24:39): You know? I was almost had this this sick pleasure in in breaking people down in my office, questioning their integrity, and, you know, making them, you know, confess to me like I would, you know, a suspect. You know? But that's how intense I was, and that's how how that anger, you know, and that ego more more that ego. How dare

Unknown Speaker (25:00): you Right.

Ron Camacho (25:02): Do this to me? You're not you're not gonna lie to me. You know who I am. You know? And like I said, I'm embarrassed about that now tremendously, and I've made a lot of amends.

Ron Camacho (25:11): I've you know, a lot of times when I've run into people from my old department, I've apologized to many, many people when I've gone back or I've run into some people from from my old department, you know, with much humility because, that's not that's not who I was deep inside. That was a facade, and that was ego and anger talking. I'm I'm glad you I got on top of that.

John Jay Wiley (25:34): I'm glad you brought up the amends part, and we'll talk about the procedure, how you got to from point a to point b because that's a long trip. It's not linear, doesn't go to straight line. There's back and forth and one step forward, two steps back, whole nine yards, at least that's the case for me. But when you talk about the recovery process, you use the word amends. And for me, what I was taught was amends means it doesn't mean saying you're sorry.

John Jay Wiley (26:01): It means changing your behavior. That's the most important thing. I'm not gonna do that anymore. After a while and the the old joke was, you tell your wife, I'm sorry. I'm not gonna do that again.

John Jay Wiley (26:12): You do it the next day. You're right. You are sorry. Yeah. But when you stop doing that, that's making amends.

John Jay Wiley (26:17): What you say to that person is the second part of it.

Ron Camacho (26:20): A 100%, and I have changed my life. And what's unfortunate is when I made those changes in my life and when I started making those changes, I wasn't in the department that long. You know? It was there maybe, you know, a month or two when I started that transformation, and then I retired, and then I went to Afghanistan. So they never really got to see that full transformation.

Ron Camacho (26:42): Some of them experienced it as they've met me, you know, and have run into me, and I've been able to help them. You know, I've helped many people from that department that, who we were in conflict with, and I've helped quite a few people, you know, in the department. I've had a great career. I'm still having a great career. I've had many contacts across The United States, and I love helping police officers.

Ron Camacho (27:04): I love helping my officers, officers from all over the place.

John Jay Wiley (27:08): And by the way, love police, but I always say this. Sometimes they could be their own worst enemies.

Unknown Speaker (27:14): Yeah. Yeah. You're you're absolutely

John Jay Wiley (27:17): Especially with that thing that we call the mouth. I mean, sometimes and I'm I'm getting on you a little bit. Sometimes this is my own personal story. I wasn't that good at being bad. I wasn't as bad as I thought I was, and I wasn't as good as guys I thought I was.

Ron Camacho (27:31): Right. Yeah. So, you know, again, just me, that anger, the way I treated certain people, the way I dealt with conflict and that ego saying, how dare you do this? How dare you do that? The way I comported myself.

Ron Camacho (27:51): I'll tell you a quick story. We were supposed to we were supposed to alert the DA when there was a shooting. Right? Even though they didn't come out, we investigated our shootings. Not not the DA's office, but the the investigators, the county the county detectives.

Ron Camacho (28:08): They wanted to know when we had shootings. Why? I don't know. We investigated our shootings.

Unknown Speaker (28:13): Mhmm.

Ron Camacho (28:13): Right? It was a new regime over there. So but we knew all the secretaries that worked out of that office. So one day, we had a shooting, and they didn't get alerted. Now that was for the county dispatch to alert them.

Ron Camacho (28:28): One of the secretaries called over, you know, of course, gossip, but told us that their deputy chief was over there talking smack about us, that he didn't get alerted, kicked the garbage can across the hall, and was just, you know, talking about the department, like, you know, that we did something. I took offense to that. Right? I'm like, who who is this guy? Who are you talking about my department?

Ron Camacho (28:53): I put on my hat. I walked to the county courthouse, about a five minute walk. I walked up to his office. They let me in his office, and I had a meeting with him and the chief of the county detectives and basically said, what's your problem? What do you why are you kicking cans?

Ron Camacho (29:11): And they were shocked. They were like, how does this guy know I was kicking cans? But who the am I to go into their office and tell them, you know, about why they're angry or why they're talking smack? You know? That that's how egotistical I was.

Ron Camacho (29:25): I I was in their office telling them they didn't have the right to be angry about not getting notified about a shooting in my city, but that's who I was. And believe it or not, by the time I got finished talking with them and I don't think I was loud. It wasn't about being loud, but I was sharp, and I just basically told them, you know, don't talk smack about the department again, blah blah blah. By the time I got back to the station, the actual district attorney had called my chief and said, hey. If Camacho has any issues, he needs to call he needs to deal with me.

Ron Camacho (29:59): So I was banned from dealing with my peers. Right? I was banned from dealing with the the the chief county detective and the deputy county detective. Postscript to that story, me and deputy county detective are great friends. He's retired.

Ron Camacho (30:15): He works for a company called Crimewatch, and he and I work extensively together. That that company I used in Chambersburg, and I use it now here. And we have made amends and have talked about those times. And I was I was very happy to be able to apologize and, just just talk about that time. And he was going through some stuff at that time.

Unknown Speaker (30:40): You know? He

Ron Camacho (30:40): had some issues and some stress going to time. But it just showed my my my mindset just how how, you know, that ego was just, like, out of control, and people fed into that. You know? They they spun me up. They knew what buttons to push to get me to go do stupid stuff like that.

John Jay Wiley (30:58): I'll just say this, Rob. There was a time when Yes, sir. When people will push my buttons because I enabled them, and I built those buttons, and I told people where to push to get a reaction. And people did that so that they wouldn't have to deal with their own stuff. Look at him go, he's being a real jerk.

John Jay Wiley (31:14): So I got it and the end result is I'm responsible for my behavior, I'm not responsible for theirs. That's thing and it's a full time job. I laughed when got called by the state's attorney because I'm thinking, I'm still kind of that way. This is Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. We're talking with Ron Camacho.

John Jay Wiley (31:33): He is a retired York, Pennsylvania police officer. He is a police chief from North Charleston, South Carolina. And his website, if you wanna get more details about what he does is camachoconsulting.net. That's camachoconsulting.net. This is the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show.

John Jay Wiley (31:50): We're gonna talk in a few moments about how he overcame the anger and became the kind of guy he always wanted to be. This law enforcement talk radio show, don't put anywhere. We'll be right back. Be sure to follow me on the Clubhouse app. It's like having your own talk radio station on your phone.

John Jay Wiley (32:08): And best of all, it is free. Be sure to follow me, John J. Wiley, at LET radio show and look for major announcements. That's right. The Clubhouse app is free and be sure to follow me, John J.

John Jay Wiley (32:22): Wiley or at LET radio show for major announcements. That's John J. Wiley or at LET radio show on the Clubhouse app. Did I mention that it is free?

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John Jay Wiley (34:41): The current conversation on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show with Ron Camacho. He is a retired York, Pennsylvania police officer. He was also former police chief for Chambersburg, Pennsylvania Police Department. He is now the chief of police for the North Charleston, South Carolina Police Department. You can get more details about what he does at camachoconsulting.net.

John Jay Wiley (35:03): Camachoconsulting.net is his name. Ron, you you talked earlier, just to recap, a lot of childhood trauma, a lot of police trauma, and stress became an issue. And the way you exhibited, like, a lot of people is anger. You used the word tyrant and which I don't like because I think it's overused. It doesn't really apply.

John Jay Wiley (35:24): I always say this. If everybody's a tyrant, then no one's a tyrant. It's because we we we use the term too much. But, obviously, you've made a lot of progress. To be honest, you can't be a police chief somewhere and and exhibit that behavior because you'll have no staff working for you.

Ron Camacho (35:42): Yeah. I I I say I joke around. I went from Genghis Khan to Buddha. You know? And that's

Unknown Speaker (35:48): all Is that a bad transition, by the way?

Ron Camacho (35:51): No. It it was a great transition. So, you know, this was affecting my marriage. We went to marriage counseling, and the therapist was like, I can't work on your marriage. I gotta work on this guy here.

Ron Camacho (36:04): You know? There's a lot of anger, there's a lot of issues with him. So it kinda transitioned from marriage counseling to therapy. And counseling and therapy are different. They use them interchangeably, but, you know, therapy is a lot more intensive, you know?

Ron Camacho (36:19): And for six months, a couple times a week, was going there working my stuff, you know, working on that psychological damage that was being done, you know, being told I was not good enough, I was gonna be a failure, and, you know, stuff from from my childhood, you know, that that you can see affected me, you know, through through adulthood. You know? I I think I I think I was 44 when I retired and, you know, finally overcame that. You know?

John Jay Wiley (36:51): Was there an moment? Was it with your wife where you say, I I need to really fix me?

Ron Camacho (36:57): Well, I I will tell you, you know, I had an affair, and I got caught. And she said, hey. We're gonna do this. And I agreed to do this.

John Jay Wiley (37:07): That doesn't surprise me with policing and affairs because by the way, I and I'm not making excuses for anybody's behavior. Everybody knows me, knows I won't. But sex issues, indiscriminate sex issues with with stress and trauma and PTSD are not infrequent.

Ron Camacho (37:25): Yeah. And I'm I own that, you know, and I'm not afraid to when I tell my story to mention that, you know, that that that happened. I own it. And, you know, again, the counseling slash therapy did not save the marriage. I'm divorced.

Ron Camacho (37:41): I'm married to a wonderful woman who saved me additionally, who helped on this journey, you know, and we're we're married to today, and she's been my rock and helped me continually continuously on this journey. But, again, just working and and healing that old you know, those old wounds and then just showing me, like, hey. You know, okay. That happened, and let's get past this. Let let me show you this, and you need to start owning this.

Ron Camacho (38:08): You need to start taking responsibility for your own actions, like you said earlier, and just kind of, you know, throwing some of that stuff in your face and and and using that mirror to show you who you are. And it just helps, like, every day going there just after we we broke down those barriers and towards the end, man, I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. And, you know, by the time I ended it, there was there was some peace. And, like, you know, at 44 years old, probably for the first time in my adult life, I felt peace, you know, which when I talk to my friends that are divorced in their fifties and early sixties or even in their forties, all those guys are searching for something.

Unknown Speaker (38:51): Right.

Ron Camacho (38:51): It's peace. You know? I think we're all searching for that peace. And sometimes they're a little jealous because I have found peace.

John Jay Wiley (38:58): And and a lot of that, to be honest with you, is is an inside job. It's the I always look for for for a long time for peace to come from the outside, and it has come from the inside first.

Ron Camacho (39:08): Yes. You know? And so yeah. So I I know you know that there's a stigma with, there's still a stigma. You know?

Ron Camacho (39:18): Even though we have shows like the Sopranos and, you know, different TV shows with with therapists and stuff, there's still a stigma here in policing. Right. And I share my story wherever I go, and I believe heavily in in getting people before psychologists and counselors because it changed my life, man. I don't know what what would have happened if I had not gone.

John Jay Wiley (39:41): Well, it is probably not pretty. So I'm I'm just glad you're here having this conversation. One of the things that I wanna ask you is when you speak with people about this, is it cathartic for you? Does it put a purpose to your your pain?

Ron Camacho (39:56): I would tell you here, you know, over the years, I've done research on, like, ego, and I've taught classes and written articles. And here last summer, I taught my whole department a class on ego. Just keep them out of my office, man. Ego is hurting you in your careers. It's getting you in front of my office with discipline.

Ron Camacho (40:16): And I love when, you know, somebody comes to me and they use the word ego. They said, hey. This is my ego. They they kind of say they recognize that, hey. This is my ego pushing me to do this, and I need to get on top of it.

Unknown Speaker (40:29): That makes me happy.

Unknown Speaker (40:30): It does.

Ron Camacho (40:30): Like I said, I've had a a career. You know, I don't there's no more accolades for me. It's about seeing the next generation get better and better, seeing other people make it to the next level, whatever that level might be. You know? I don't care if they wanna start a business.

Ron Camacho (40:45): I don't care if they wanna be chiefs or great detectives. I'm here to help as many people as possible get developed and be the best that they can be. And when they have and eagle can stop that. So when we have those conversations or I see that and I see that improvement, that that's the world for me. That makes me so happy.

Ron Camacho (41:05): It's it's ridiculous.

John Jay Wiley (41:06): One of the things that I was taught, and I can't take credit for this, but EGO stand e g o stands for easing God out. That and it's putting me front and center. Does that apply to you?

Ron Camacho (41:18): You know what? A 100%. And I say this, and I've written this. The day that I put others before myself, I received so many blessings Yep. From so many different places.

Ron Camacho (41:30): It's just ridiculous. I mean, just how many good things have happened to me in my life, it's it's and my wife will even say it. Like, she's like, something will come out of nowhere. She's like, well, how did that happen? How did that happen?

Ron Camacho (41:44): And it's because I consistently put others before myself consistently. That phone rings at 03:00 in the morning, and it's somebody that needs to talk to me. May maybe they're not even in my own department. Maybe they know somebody that knows somebody. You know, I'll take that phone call.

Ron Camacho (41:59): My wife, at times, wants to take my phone and flush it down the toilet. You know? She calls it my new mistress. Right? But she knows that she knows that this is what I enjoy, helping people and specifically helping police officers.

Ron Camacho (42:15): To me, that's that's my Olympic sport.

John Jay Wiley (42:18): Last question before you go to your website. Do you look back in your life and you think sometimes this is a different guy or different stages of your life?

Ron Camacho (42:27): You know, I have that conversation with my wife all the time because we were high school sweethearts, and we talk about, like, what would have happened if we would have stayed together. You know, I joined the army out of high school, and, you know, we kinda broke up, you know, then, like but I think I needed to go through all this to become the person that I am. I needed to go through all this hardship. I needed to go through all this stuff to open my eyes. You know?

Ron Camacho (42:50): And, so I'm I'm not sad about the different things that have happened to me. You know? There are some some things that there are some regrets, but I'm happy with the person that I am today. And, yes,

Unknown Speaker (43:04): I'm with

Unknown Speaker (43:06): that I am today.

John Jay Wiley (43:07): To work for. Let's go to your website, camachoconsulting.net. What is it about? What could people find there?

Ron Camacho (43:13): Yeah. So I do some consulting on the side. You know, I spend a lot of time, you know, doing security consulting for hospitals, teaching that ego class and, doing security security stuff, you know, looking at buildings and and giving, classes on stuff like that. I do some leadership classes. And right now, I'm in the middle of writing a book called bring bringing ego to the forefront.

Ron Camacho (43:46): And I got the first draft done, and we're ready to go into presale. So if people are interested in in that, they can email me at Ron Camacho bringing ego to the forefront dot com. That would be awesome. And, you know, I can fill them and get them some some nice links to our our presale. There's some different packages we have.

Ron Camacho (44:09): And, again, this book is there to I think it's pretty unique because the book is there. We talk about ego, but then in there, there are different techniques techniques you can do by yourself.

Unknown Speaker (44:20): That's what a lot of people don't talk about. Ron, I gotta wrap things up. I thank you for your service, and thanks for talking about it on Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Both very much appreciated.

Ron Camacho (44:29): Thank you, John Jay, for having me. I really do appreciate it. This is a great conversation.

John Jay Wiley (44:35): I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM and FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of law enforcement talk radio show and podcast.

John Jay Wiley (45:03): Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See you. Get

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Unknown (46:00): Get the brand's pros trust priced right and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid through 05/27 while supplies last. Selection varies by location.

Unknown (46:10): When maintaining your daily wellness rituals is important to you, the change in routine during the summer can feel daunting. Kochava's new travel packs help you stick to your daily ritual even when you're on the go. Just one packet of Kachava's All in One Nutrition Shake provides complete nutrition with 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens, and much more. So you'll be fueled and ready for wherever life or your summer adventures take you. No fillers, no nonsense, just the good stuff your body craves.

Unknown (46:42): Plus, it actually tastes delicious. But you can try it for yourself because the variety pack includes all six delicious fan favorites. Chocolate, vanilla, chai, matcha, coconut acai, and strawberry. So instead of worrying about sticking to your daily ritual, simplify it with Kachava. Go to kachava.com and use code news for 15% off.

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